Fearless Possibilities with Sha Nacino

18: Lead with Heart and Still Win l ft Stephen Ong, EVP and CAO of Insular Life

• The Possibility Igniter - Sha Nacino • Episode 18

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Lead with Heart and Still Win l ft Stephen Ong, EVP and CAO of Insular Life 


In this episode of the Fearless Possibilities Podcast with Sha Nacino, we sit down with Stephen Ong, Chief Agency Officer (CAO) of Insular Life, as he shares his  leadership journey from basketball coach and teacher to C-suite executive.


Stephen opens up about leading with heart (“leadership with puso”), why integrity matters, lessons in motivating teams, and how to care for your people. Whether you’re an aspiring leader or an experienced executive, this episode is for you.


Timestamps:

00:00:00 – Leading from the Heart:

00:02:20 – From Court to Corporate:

00:04:40 – Doing the Right Things vs. Doing Things Right:

00:05:42 – Facing New Challenges:

00:07:58 – The Power of Unconventional Leadership:

00:10:38 – Risks, Status Quo, and Future-Proofing:

00:11:45 – Coaching and Leadership Parallels:

00:13:35 – Contagious Energy & Authentic Passion:

00:17:08 – Proudest Achievements:

00:18:39 – Leadership Lessons:

00:19:48 – Brand of Leadership:

00:20:53 – Debunking ‘Softie’ Leadership:

00:22:08 – Connecting Beyond Work:

00:25:06 – Leading from the Front Lines:.

00:26:58 – Advice to New Leaders:

00:28:23 – Top 5 Qualities of a Great Leader:

00:29:49 – If You Had a Billboard…:

00:30:13 – What’s Next for C-Suite Leaders?:

00:31:10 – The Question Never Asked:

00:32:58 – Why Say Yes to This Podcast?:

00:33:56 – Reversing the Interview:.

00:36:32 – Gratitude and Parting Words:

Enjoy the episode, and if it resonates, don’t forget to leave a 5-star review!

Sha Nacino is a keynote speaker on human connection and compassionate leadership, TEDx speaker, and author of 15 books. She was named one of the Top 30 motivational speakers in the world by Global Gurus alongside Tony Robbins and Simon Sinek.

To invite Sha to speak at your company of event, visit https://www.shanacino.com/ 

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Being a leader would just mean to start from caring for your people. As a chief agency officer, I have to make sure that those people working with me and the agents working with me and the agency leaders working with me are motivated to give their best. Doing the right things would mean it's about integrity, doing the right thing, even if nobody's looking. Doing things right, you do it. Because you were a basketball coach before, how is it related to your work as a corporate leader? As a corporate leader, you need to. What is one way you make your team members or to make the employees in your organization truly feel seen, valued and appreciated? As a leader, it's no longer about your personal growth. Of course you can still study for your own growth. But as a leader, it's already about. For me, the most important thing about. Leadership is if you were to summarize the top five qualities of a great leader, what would be those qualities for me? You're listening to the Fearless Possibilities Podcast, the leadership show where we explore stories and wisdom from world class C suite leaders and game changers to inspire what's possible in your life and leadership. And now, here's your host, author and keynote speaker on human connection and compassionate leadership, former adjunct faculty at the Asian Institute of Management, TEDx speaker and one of Global Guru's top 30 motivational speakers in the world alongside Tony Robbins and Simon Sinek. The Possibility Igniter Shah Nassino Hi, this is Shot Nasino. I am so happy you're here. Every Monday at 7am Manila time, we release a brand new episode to help you start your week with fearless possibilities. Tune in as you prepare for work or during your morning commute and let's grow in life and leadership together. Today we sit down with Stephen Ong, Executive Vice President and Chief Agency Officer of Insular Life. In this episode, we dive into how to lead with heart and still win. So can you share with us very briefly your leadership journey? What was the first job that you took? And then how did you rise to become the EVP and CEO of Insular Life? Yeah, after graduating I. I took up coaching. I was hired as a basketball coach in the high school where I graduated. And at the same time I was also teaching biology and teaching Filipino. So I was a teacher. I was a basketball coach at the time. So when you're a basketball coach, of course leadership is being expected from you. So aside from being a basketball coach, I applied as a life insurance agent. So my first company. My first company. I spent 13 years with my first company, the first 10 years as a Life insurance agent. So I was agent of the year for three consecutive years. And then my former CEO at the time took a bold step in promoting me from being an agent to a territory head. So that was a six step. Wow. So even if, when I was still a financial advisor agent, some of the agents would usually ask me to share with them what I would usually do for me to become successful. So as a coach, of course you're expected to become a leader. And I serve also as assistant coach to different coaches like Bingi Fabis and Milton U. So I learned coaching and leadership from them. So when I took on the role as a territory head, then now a CAO of insular life. For me, the most important thing about leadership is leading with the heart. So I always believe in people who wouldn't care how much you know until they know how much you care for them. It's not going to be easy because sometimes they would misunderstand when you say leading with the heart, when you say leading with the heart, in Tagalog, they call it my poop. So sometimes they would, they would expect that all their requests would be granted because they, they say that they will expect you to make your decision using your heart. But for me, leadership is about doing the right things and not doing things right. That's number one. Showing them what are the things that are needed to be done for you to become successful. Of course, the right things to be done for you to become successful at the same time walking your talk and practicing what you preach. Wow. So doing the right things versus doing things right. Can you expound a bit on what's the difference between that doing the right. Things would mean there's no gray area. Okay. It's about integrity, doing the right thing, even if nobody is looking. Doing things right, you do it because it will benefit somebody, it will benefit you. But at the same time it might be not beneficial to somebody else. But doing the right things, there's no gray area about it. There's no black or white. It's simple. If it's white, it's white, black, it's black. And it's all about integrity as well. And that is very important. To lead with a heart, you have to have the integrity. So let's take it back to that time wherein you were promoted to become a territorial head from an agent of the year. Right. So, and you mentioned it was six steps promotion. So how did you prepare for it or how did you feel when you got promoted? Yeah, when I got promoted, of course I was excited about the role But I was also quite the right term, should be scared about the role because it's going to be at a different level. You would be expecting now to be manage agents, manage agency leaders and you'll be expected also to help them become, become successful. I was excited because I was excited, looking forward to impart my knowledge, impart my knowledge by my best practices to our agents for them to become successful as well. I was quite scared because being given a six step promotion is not common. Yes. In any field. So there would be those who would question, especially those who have been spending more years on leadership, which would actually question your capabilities or your knowledge about leadership. But I guess if you're really doing the right things and letting them know that what you're doing is for their own good and would benefit them, they would eventually follow and they would eventually cooperate and, and believe you. What was the biggest challenge that you had that time? How old were you at that time and what were the ages of the people you needed to lead? That happened in 2000, 2008. So I was 34 years old at the time. I was leading more experienced leaders. Some of them are in their 40s, 50s, even in their 60s. So the challenge there was how am I going to gain their respect? How am I going to make them believe that the direction we're going into would actually benefit them? How am I going to make them understand that direction we're going to is something that all of us would want to achieve? But of course that's the what of the journey, the how of the journey. Some of them wouldn't want to learn new things. Some of them would believe that their ways are the right ways. So making them understand that there some sort of doing things differently for them to become successful or to achieve what they want is somewhat of a challenge. Did you feel that you're the leader who promoted you is somehow an unconventional leader? He is an unconventional leader. He's a very. He became my close friend right now and he's very unconventional because what he said was of course if I needed a territory head at the time, somebody would just look at maybe the branch heads or the region heads for them to be promoted. Yes. But he told me at that time he was looking for someone who can be influential, somebody who has done the job, somebody who the agents cannot question and somebody who has also felt what it's like to become an agent. Somebody who has experienced the challenges and the difficulties and the objections of being an agent. So that was his mindset at the time and what he saw in me is my passion to be able to deliver what I need to deliver, my passion for the life insurance industry and my passion to be able to share my knowledge to the agents who I'm with. How did that leader influence your brand of leadership? Right now? It's the ability to take a calculated risk. I call it a calculated risk because yes, it was a risk to promote somebody without any leadership experience. At the time my leadership was being a coach, being a teacher, being an officer of student organizations, but somebody without a corporate leadership experience. So it's a calculated risk because he knows for a fact that I've done the job. So it's like managing or leading a group of people who are doing the job that I've done before. And according to his word, somebody who's done the job successfully and consistently. So he is a leader who would take on a calculated risk. So I can say that right now I do take risks. I believe that leaders a lot of times should take risks, but I believe in taking calculated risk. When I say calculated risk, it's going to be a risk, but it's also giving you enough reasons to take that risk. Yes. And I feel that a lot of leaders could be status quo leaders. They don't want to take the risks. And what I've observed as well is that there are leaders who are status quo. They don't want to rock the boat, they just want to do the job well. And the danger I see there is that yes, you may be doing your job excellently well, but tomorrow you might be surprised your business is already obsolete. What do you think about that? Yes, I agree. Because there's this saying, why fix it if ain't broken or if it broke? But I think that if things are going well, it's not really fixing it because it's not broken. It's fixing it to improve the process or improve the situation. We've heard about the stories. What happened to Nokia? Yes. What happened to Kodak? They were number one in their own industry but they did not take the risk. They did not think of fixing what's already in place or thinking of improving them. So that's what happened to them. So I believe in looking forward. Being a forward thinking leader is very, very important. Even if you're successful now, you need to think of what might happen a year from now, two years from now or three years from now. What will happen to the, to the industry. Yes, I agree. Do you think there is a correlation between being a coach? You were a basketball coach before. How is it Related to your work as a corporate leader. As a corporate leader, you need to motivate also the people around you. As a coach, one of the things that's very important is to make sure that your players are motivated to play at their best level. So right now, as a chief agency officer, I have to make sure that those people working with me and the agents working with me and the agency leaders working with me are motivated. Motivated to give their best. They're inspired to give their best. Of course, there's also this saying that motivation should come from within. But as leaders, we play a big part on how are they going to be motivated from within as well. So I sometimes would call myself as a cheerleader, because I celebrate with them. Whenever they would achieve some success or they become successful, I celebrate with them. I empathize with them. Whenever there are some challenges, I solve the problems with them. So there's a correlation. And they really must feel that the leader in me is with them whether they win or they lose. And for me, as a leader, it's important for them to know where I will be during the times that they're losing. Mm. It's easy for a leader to celebrate when the team is winning. It's easy to celebrate when your team is being successful. But where am I as a leader? Whenever they're facing some challenges, because I believe as a leader, that's the time that they need me the most. When they're losing or when they're having some challenges. So being present not only during victory, but especially during the challenging times. So they would feel that you're with them and you have their backs. Yes. How important are the energy and passion of the leader when it comes to motivating their team members? Here's the context. I remember when I did, when I gave a keynote speaker during one of our sales kickoffs, you spoke, you gave your remarks as the leader, and the energy was so different. You did not read from your notes, and you were so energetic. And I could feel that the. That the insurance advisors also felt your energy. They were excited. So how important are the energy and passion of the leader in motivating their team members? First, whenever we would attend a meeting or a kickoff like that, when you were our guest speaker and. Thank you. You really inspired our agency leaders at the time. And you can see the reaction. They were very, very happy. After your presentation, preparation is very, very vital. You need to prepare whenever you attend meetings and events like that. And you're right, I don't read from anything because usually I don't I would attend prepared, but I don't prepare what I will tell them. I think the Lord has guided me that whenever my name is called, he will just make me feel what I should tell my agents and agency leaders. And every time I'm there, I speak from the heart. I will tell them what I want them to do. I will tell them how I feel about the whole situation. And you cannot fake these things. You cannot fake these things because they would notice. So I make sure that I come in prepared, and I make sure that I myself, I am motivated to do the things that I should be doing during those events. So whenever I talk to them, I would tell them those things that I feel at the time, and I would speak from the heart and motivate them. So the energy is there. Because I'm very, very passionate about what we want to achieve in life. I'm very passionate about it. I'm very, very passionate about the things that they do. And that is to make sure that the Filipino families are well prepared for whatever the different stages in their life, in their retirement, or during the times that when they need some finances the most. Yes, I can still remember that we were in Cebu, and while you were talking, I was just sitting comfortably on my chair, and you were talking. I felt stalled. Like, I feel like I'm part of Insular Life because I felt your energy just by the way you were speaking. And like what you said, you cannot fake that. You cannot just practice public speaking and then speak with that energy, because somehow, even if the speaker will say all the right words and will speak with so much elegance, somehow you would still feel. Why does it feel like the words are not landing? It's because maybe there's a disconnect between what the speaker is saying and what he really means or who he really is. But during that time, I would say, I feel like I'm part of Insular life. I feel like I need to sit taller. I felt like I needed to sit taller while you were delivering your speech with so much passion and energy. You were a big part of the success of that event. And after that event, as you all know, we started climbing the rankings again consistently. So thank you for that, and hopefully we can have you sooner than later. My pleasure. Congratulations. So, speaking of the rankings of Insular Life, what are you most proud of? Like, where was Insular Life before you came in as the cao? Before I came in, under the leadership of our chairperson and president CEO, they were doing already a lot of great things. So when I came in they were already on their way on climbing the rankings, so they were already doing very, very, very, very well. But what I'm proud of is the latest award that we got from kpmg and that is delivering the best possible service to our customers. Wow. So among the life insurance companies, we rank the highest because they can see, it's an independent survey. They can see that we were able to give the best service possible to our customers, to those who would benefit from the living benefit and from the death benefit. Of course, of the products that, that we offer, they can see also how we serve our customers, how we take care of them. So that's one of the things that I am really proud of to be a part of this organization. Congratulations. Such a great achievement. Because it's all about the customers, right? It's all about how you make the customers feel. So, yeah, thank you for that. Amongst all the lessons that you learned as a leader, what would you say is the most relevant or something that really changed your life? Currently, I would say that a lot of things are being expected from a leader to the point that they would expect you to give them everything. And everything rises and falls on leadership. Just like in a basketball game, whenever a team would win, the credit is being given to the players. When the team would lose, there's something wrong with the coach. So that's also leadership for you. I'm the chief agency officer or the head of sales. If sales are doing well, we can say that because this leader did well, this agent did well. So I have accepted the fact that if there will be some challenges, it's going to be me who's going to take on the responsibility of how to improve the situation. So for me, the most important thing that I've learned about leadership is everything falls and rises on leadership. And nobody loves a loser. Everyone loves a winner. And as a leader, you're as good as your last performance. How would you describe your brand as a leader? I can say it's a leadership with the heart. Leadership with puso. I believe that if you lead your team with the heart, it's more on putting yourself into their shoes. It's being emphatic about their situation. It's caring about their situation. And the most important thing is looking after them, not only in the present, but looking after what's best for them in the future. What's best for them in their respective careers. As a leader, one of my missions is always to make sure that all my team members will have a better career under my leadership, will have a better Career in life so that they can give a better life to their families. So that's my brand of leadership, is to make sure that they can feel that the puso leadership or the leadership. Leader with the heart. What would you say to people who say that, oh, if you lead with the heart, you're a softie? Leading with the heart would also mean that not really being a softie but being fair to them. I have this belief that sometimes you have to be hard to be nice. If you were going to be strict with them, they will learn the ropes. If you're going to really push them hard, they will become successful. So for me, leading with the heart would mean caring for them. And when we care for our children, we want the best for them. It doesn't follow that if we spank them or we scold them that we don't love them. And it also doesn't help being a softie to them. So for me, leading with the heart would mean being emphatic, truly care for them and truly would be their priority. Your priority would be their future and how are they going to give a better life to their families as well? Yes, I agree with you. Actually leading with the heart is not being a softie. I think that some of the most compassionate and caring leaders are some of the most fearless leaders. Because it takes a lot of courage to be compassionate, to be caring. Yes. And sometimes you need to be involved as well. Yes. Like for example, whenever I talk to the members of my team, whenever I would call them for a one on one meeting, a lot of times they're prepared with the numbers, with the report. But simply a lot of times whenever I talk to them, I just want to know how they are. More often than not I want to know also their, their personal ambition, their personal dreams, their dreams for their family and nothing connected about work. But how can I help them achieve the dreams, their dreams for their family? How can I help them achieve their own personal dream? Aside from their being promoted at work, aside from being given higher, higher pay, but also their dreams for their family as well and their personal dream. So for me that's very, very important as well. Why is it important for you to care about their, their dreams and personal lives, family lives, even if these are not related to work. For me, just what I've mentioned earlier, they don't care how much you know or people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. For me, it's very important for me as their leader that they know that I care not only about their performance at work. I care about what they want to achieve for their family, what they want to achieve in life, other than what they want to achieve in work. Because by doing that, I can give them the proper support that they would need. One perfect example is that I had a team member before they were married for around three, four years, but they can't seem to have a child. So I was telling them, he was telling me, she was telling me that their dream is to have a baby. And then I said, why don't you consult a doctor who specializes in helping couple have a baby? And then she told me that usually it's hard to take a leave, and usually work is piled up. So I told her, whenever you need to see a doctor for you to achieve the dream, let me know. You can take a leave whenever you want to for you to achieve that dream. And I was surprised that there are a lot of couples who actually are hesitating to take a leave because of work. So during that year, I think two or three of my team members were able to. Were able to take a leave. And right now, they're all parents having their own babies right now. Wow. So, yeah, it really takes a lot of courage for leaders to be compassionate and like what I said, you're one of those leaders who are unconventional. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, you're welcome. So aside from what you're already doing, what is one way you make your team members or to make the employees in your organization truly feel seen, valued, and appreciated? I don't believe in leading from the ivory tower. Just like yesterday, I just came from Cabanatuan. I enjoy talking to people. For me, out of sight, out of mind. And whenever I would visit a particular branch in the different provinces in the Philippines, I don't only talk to them or I don't only spend lunch with them. I make sure that they can share with me their challenges and their issues and the problems they're having for them to become successful. I always tell them that your issues are my issues, your challenges are my challenges. If I can make a decision right away, I'll make a decision. If I need to get back to home office to find out how am I going to resolve some issues or some challenges that you have, I'll do that and get back to you right away. And for me, one particular important thing is that we don't only listen or hear them out. We take action. We listen to them. We take action and let them know the actions that we've taken. For Us to help them address the issues or the challenges that they're having. So usually in a month, I travel around four to five times in the month, visiting the different offices all over the country. They can truly feel your presence. Yes, hopefully. Because of course, we only have 12 months in a year. Yes. We have 55 offices all over the country. But I can say, I think for the past two years that I've been with India, I've already visited, I can say 85% of our offices. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. So let's say a middle manager is listening right now, or maybe this person was recently promoted to become a leader, and maybe this person is doubting himself. Knowing what you know now and given your experiences as a leader, what advice would you give that person? Number one, you. You are promoted not because of anything else, but you were promoted because you deserve it. You worked hard for it. Now, as a leader, it might be a first time for you to be. To be a leader right now. But being a leader would just mean to start from caring for your people. If you start caring for your people, everything will fall into places, because I'm sure you've been led also before. So among your leaders, who do you think you can learn from? What kind of leadership do you want? Do you want to be? So starting from caring would mean doing the right things already and being very, very passionate about how are we going to. How are you going to help your team members become. Become successful? Because as a leader, it's no longer about your personal growth. Of course, you can still study for your own growth. But as a leader, it's already about the growth of people around you, the growth of people who are working for you. How are they going to improve their skills? How are they going to improve their knowledge under your leadership? So for me, it starts with caring and being confident that you were put in a position because we know or they know, that you can make changes in the lives of the people around you. That's very empowering. Thank you. Stephen, if you were to summarize the top five qualities of a great leader, what would be those qualities? For me, it's a leader with a heart. For me, very, very, very, very important. Number two, leaders with integrity, doing the right things and not doing things right. Number three, a very, very compassionate leader, somebody who would actually put himself in the shoes of the team members so that he'll know how to deal with different people and the different situations that people are into. Number four, being passionate about what you and your team members would want to achieve. You need to show that them how passionate you are. Because being passionate would mean by you will do your best, the whole team will do your best to be able to achieve that. And number five, being very, very transparent and honest. There are a lot of leaders when it comes to challenging times. They will not tell their team members the real situation. For me, being transparent and letting them know the real situation, even if it's a challenging situation, would mean that they would know also how to tackle the different challenges and how to tackle the different issues that they're facing right now. So for me, those five things are very, very important. Wow. I love those five things. If you were given a billboard wherein they would tell you, okay, Stephen, what is that one message that you would like every leader to read? What would you like to put on that billboard? Lead with integrity by doing the right things and not doing things right. Okay, thank you. And then another thing is that, let's say you're. You're sitting down with a C suite executive and this leader is telling you, oh, Stephen, I've reached the top of the corporate ladder. What else is possible for me? So we're talking about the CEOs. Yes, the CEOs. Yeah. I think you can still be very, very influential in changing the lives of the people around you, the people you're leading, people who look up to you. And being on the top of the ladder would mean bigger responsibilities, because to whom much is given, much is expected as well. So being on top of the ladder would mean doing more things that would benefit the people around your people, people who are reporting to you, people who are working with you and working for you. So still continuously being caring and being passionate about what you and your organization should want to achieve. You've been to a lot of events and you've also been interviewed on different podcasts and different shows. If there is one question that you wish you were asked but were never asked yet, what is that one question? What? What are you going to tell your younger self? Oh, okay. How would you answer that? I just thought of that. What am I going to tell my younger self? Number one, I would tell my younger self to study more, to study more, especially read more books, because I didn't read as much books as I wanted to. So try to spend time reading books and then try to spend more time with the people who matter. Try to spend more time with your family, because those are the times that you cannot bring back. Maybe when an executive is asked, what's the advice that should be given to a younger himself Some people might expect work harder or, or maybe you should have done this for you to have a better career. But at the stage in my career right now, at my age, right now, I would tell my younger self that how I wish I could bring back time and spend more time with my daughters, spend more time with my wife, spend more time with my parents and with my family as well. I'm trying my best right now to stay, spend more time with them. But during my younger days, my work has always, my priority has always been work. But how I wish it was the other way around. So that's what I'm going to tell the younger so. Or the younger Stephen, that I should have spent more time with my family. Thank you for making time for this podcast. I have additional two questions, so the other one would be what is what made you decide to say yes to this, to be interviewed on the Fearless Possibilities podcast? Number one, it's you. Thank you. I invited you to help me help us out in inspiring our leaders and our agents. You immediately said yes. Immediately. And of course, we're talking about leadership, something that's close to my heart. And I do hope that in my own little way, our listeners can learn something about leadership. I mean, there's different type of leadership. My leadership style might not be, might not fit somebody else, or my leadership style is something that a certain leader might not agree upon. But I do hope that they will learn something from this conversation. Definitely. I've learned a lot from this conversation. And you are so gracious to answer all my questions the entire time. It is. It was me who's been asking you questions and learning from you. So for my last question, I want to give you the chance to ask me a question. What for you, is the most important? I mentioned five traits of being a leader, and it's really difficult to choose among the five. What, for you is the most important trait of, among the five that I've. Mentioned, of the five that you mentioned? I think it's about being caring towards other, towards your team. Because for me, when people, there is a disconnect between what leaders want and what employees need. Employees, they need to feel seen, safe, appreciated. Right? Leaders, at the end of the day, you want results, we want results. So it seems like there is a disconnect between so how can you actually bring the two parties together towards a common goal? And for me, it's not more push, but it's about more connection, more care. If the team members feel that you really care about them, then they would be motivated themselves to go for that goal. Pretty much like what you were. Your example a while ago where this couple, they wanted to have a baby, but they couldn't take a leave. And then you made them feel that, hey, you're not just economic machines. I care about you as a person. I care about your dreams, your personal dreams, even if they were not related to work. So because of that, now there is this internal feeling that, oh, Stephen cares about me now. How can I make life easier also for my leader? I agree. I agree 100%. Because when I decided to move from one company to my present company, of course I expected my team members to cry. But what really made me cry was when I saw the messenger and the security guard crying, I was actually surprised. But when they were asked, they said that at his level, Stephen would still spend time talking to us. And whenever he would order food for the team, he would order for us as well. Those small things matter to them. So that actually was the one that was really very, very touching for me when I moved from one company to this present company. Thank you, Stephen. And thank you for giving me concrete examples as well on how to really lead with the heart and to really make your team members feel seen. Your example about the guard, security guard, because it means that you also matter in the organization. I see you. So thank you. Thank you so much for guesting on. The show and I hope our listeners will learn something from this conversation. It's a pleasure and it's an honor to be here to be a part of your podcast. I'm speechless. Thank you. Stephen. Thank you so much. The pleasure is ours. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Fearless Possibilities podcast. I hope this episode inspired you and made you feel seen. If this episode resonated with you and you feel it deserves a 5 star rating, I have a small favor to ask. Please leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. When you do that, you are helping us reach more leaders around the world. I highly value your time. And don't worry, the review will only take about five seconds. Here's how to leave a review on Spotify in three simple steps. First, on your phone, just tap the name of the show, Fearless Possibilities with Shine Asino and scroll all the way to the top. Second, tap the three dots. And lastly, tap rate show and give it a five star rating. Okay, I'll give you a few seconds to do that then. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. This is Shah Anacino. I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you. For tuning in to the Fearless Possibilities podcast. To invite Shah to speak at your company or event, visit shanecino.com or email infoonasino.com until next time, stay human and keep unlocking possibilities.